HARDLISTENING

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Because he reminds you of that time?

Mike：Yeah. Even though he's not from there, because he comes way later, he comes with punk, he comes from hardcore. I'm before that. Punk came later. But it's funny, because he plays like guys when I was a kid. Does that make sense? 60's, Cream, very strong band for each personality. No domitating person. 70's come, bass player gets put back as support role. Punk comes, everybody's just playing again. So you're just as strong as a guitar or a drummer. So in a way, for me, punk was a return back to bands like Cream. Maybe not as virtuoso, but as far as dynamics in the band, bass player was just as strong, so that's why it struck me and D. Boon so strong. So when I come to J, I kind of bring that. For me, playing with J is really natural. I don't have to change hardly anything. The only thing I have to change is this (pick). I haven't used one of these in 18 years. I've been playing with fingers. J asked me to use pick. Very difficult in a way. But, I'm glad that he asked me to do it, because, when you stop learning, you stop living. So I have to relearn. Also I didn't play through Marshalls (laughs).

I was surprised that you were using a pick.

Mike：He asked me.

Was it the very first time for you?

Mike：I used it in the beginning of Minutemen, because punk was too fast. And then by 'Double Nickels On The dime', there's only one song with the pick. 44 others with fingers. I go back to fingers. And then I lost it. If you don't use it, you lose it.

Why did J want you to use a pick?

Mike：Well, there's a different sound. Lou played with the pick. I know why he does. I know why he asked me to do it. And a lot of people asked me 'Why do you let him tell you to do that?' And you know, you can't learn everything if you're always the boss. I have my own bands. I get my way all the time. To take directions from someone else is when you can grow too. It's good to take turns. They take it as an insult like it's a power situation. It's a question of power. Like, he's telling you what to do. This is ridiculous. They can't understand inside dynamics. That's why it's great to do interviews, and you can tell people this. Because, it looks like bands are like, there's one guy, and then he tells people what to do. No. He asked me to do it. And I said, 'yeah, sure.'

Who are 'they'?

Mike：People in the media. Questions. Interviews. Even fans. Even kids. Listeners. Gig goers. Because MTV and all these people, Rolling Stone, they don't explain band dynamics. They make it like it's some kind of royalty, and you have the king, then you have the knave, serf peasant ... (laughs).

Band dynamics is basically about the sound of the band, right?

Mike：That's right. Let me explain this. it's hard to dream by committee. One man has the dream, and then people come to help. Then when it's your turn, you have the dream, and they come to help. J's helped me on several records. You've got some of them right here. 14-minute 'Maggot Brain.' First take. So he's done things for me that I've asked. It's to me, natural. You can't always be the boss. It's not good to always be serf. This means, it's not easy. It was difficult. I have to tell you about the tour. I had my own tour. I ended on Orlando, Florida. The next day, I start with J. I had 1 day to learn. It was very very difficult. But, so what? Life should be difficult sometimes.

You have a long relationship with J.

Mike：Yeah. 10, 11 years. He produced the last fIREHOSE album. Played on the Ball-hog record.

How did you two meet?

Mike：He was SST. That was his dream to be in SST. First time, acutally, I heard him was when D. Boon got the first album right before he was killed. And he said, 'You gotta listen to this. It's like some crazy version of Meat Puppets.' And J was still a teenager. That's how I first heard him, was through D. Boon. Punk in America was very small at first. So it was easy, really, to kind of know people. The scene was tiny. He was this kid from Massachusetts, the other side of the country. But still, because punk was small, we were close.

How about this tour? How did it come about?

Mike：He just called me. He made this album a year ago, all by himself. He had some guy from England help him a little. Kevin Shields, the engineer. And I get this phone call. And like I said, I already had a tour. I said 'Sure", I toured short, I jumped on. I like things being spontaneous. You know what I mean? It makes things exciting. And obviously, he was thinking of something in his head. Oh, I should tell you something. Last year, I got real sick, I almost died. I was in bed for 6 months. These doctors mistreated me. I had a huge infection. I was in bed. I almost died. And I didn't play bass that whole time. I had tubes in me. I came back, and I couldn't play. Now, I hadn't stopped playing bass since I was a boy, since I was 13. So I was very scared. So I start doing Stooges. I mean, I couldn't even make scales, I couldn't do shit. So I start playing Stooges. And I actually do these 3 gigs with J in New York City where we do nothing but Stooges songs. So maybe that's what gave him the idea.

Was that a gig with your own band?

Mike：No, we made a gig with J, me, and Murph. In New York City. 3 shows. All Stooges. Everything off Fun House, and the first album. And it was a way for me to get back. I could barely stand up. My skin was yellow. I was jaundiced still. I was really sick still. But I wanted to play again. And J helped me out. So maybe that's what got him the idea. I can't tell you what's in his mind, you know?

Wow. I'm so glad you're back.

Mike：I'm only 43. I almost was gone. Almost was gone. I was 120 pounds, half my blood was gone. This thing grew inside me. These doctors, horrible doctors. And then the county, where they do the gun-shot wounds, they saved my life. Young men, right out of med school. The medicine in the United States, very strange. Like I'm still $35,000 in debt. That's how much it cost to save me. But I'm working. I don't want people to have pity on me or anything, but it was heavy. It was heavy. 39 straight days of fever. Thought it was like, 'Hey D. Boon, here I come'.

Did they figure out what was wrong?

Mike：They never knew what started it. But to save me, they had to cut me open. Emergency surgery. Between the legs, I had holes in me 6 inches deep. And they had to heal. So it was like, in bed with my legs like this, for 6 months. Can you imagine?

Intestinal problems?

Mike：It's called perineum. You just have soft flesh there. It ate around my rectum like a horseshoe. They don't know what it was. They think maybe, because I ride a bike every morning for 20 miles, it was just a saddle sore that just grew out of control. These ass-hole doctors, just let it grow in me, and gave me pills. Just pills. They had to go in there and yank it out. What can I say, you know? I want to get beyond that, but I think that might have been what put the thing in J's head. Because we did the Stooges.

We heard you sing live for the first time, and I thought your voice was very strong and that you have a great voice.

Mike：I couldn't hear it. I couldn't hear one word.

Well, we heard it.

Mike：And I come from old punk, so I don't want to complain, but man, it's scary. You don't know what's coming out of there.

Was it okay the second time?

Mike：I couldn't hear it the second time. J plays very loud on stage.

How about a week later?

Mike：(Shakes his head.) You just hope for the best. I don't want to complain, cause it's a great opportunity to play for people, but I couldn't hear shit.

What about Nagoya and Osaka?

Mike：J plays really loud. Blew the vocals out. I couldn't hear it. I'm not complaining, but it is weird.

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